Comments on: Role of Long Time Experience http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html Dealing with software projects in real life Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:13:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Pawel Brodzinski http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1880 Pawel Brodzinski Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:00:00 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1880 Actually reading the post one could risk a thesis that I'm biased <i>in favor</i> of experienced people, not against them. "I’d prefer an older developer over a youngster if given a choice."<br/><br/>A remark about habits brought along with experience is general. The older we are the more habits we have and the less we are willing to change them. That's not bias, that's general observation. <br/><br/>Leaving professional area aside, look at your habits when you was 20 and your grandparents at the same time. I guess it was you who was much more flexible when you consider character, lifestyle, attitude etc. People changes that way and it certainly has some influence on their environment, workplace included. Sure, you can find exceptions from the rule, but still these are only exceptions.<br/><br/>As a manger I just consider above facts when thinking how people would suit to the team. That's of course only one of points I look at, definitely not the most important one.<br/><br/>By the way, if I pointed other things I consider as decision-drivers when hiring I would have brought stronger accusations than above. Anyway, I still think I'm fair with recruitment. It wouldn't be very wise to choose worse people over better ones only because some vague non-merits criteria. Actually reading the post one could risk a thesis that I’m biased in favor of experienced people, not against them. “I’d prefer an older developer over a youngster if given a choice.”

A remark about habits brought along with experience is general. The older we are the more habits we have and the less we are willing to change them. That’s not bias, that’s general observation.

Leaving professional area aside, look at your habits when you was 20 and your grandparents at the same time. I guess it was you who was much more flexible when you consider character, lifestyle, attitude etc. People changes that way and it certainly has some influence on their environment, workplace included. Sure, you can find exceptions from the rule, but still these are only exceptions.

As a manger I just consider above facts when thinking how people would suit to the team. That’s of course only one of points I look at, definitely not the most important one.

By the way, if I pointed other things I consider as decision-drivers when hiring I would have brought stronger accusations than above. Anyway, I still think I’m fair with recruitment. It wouldn’t be very wise to choose worse people over better ones only because some vague non-merits criteria.

]]> By: Anonymous http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1879 Anonymous Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:19:00 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1879 I think you are biased against senior people. It is fair to say a person must get a job on merit, but to say that "Along with their experience they bring all their habits which are really hard to change" indicates your own mindset.<br/>Like skills people must be assessed for habits each on his own merit young or old. That is the point I will like to make.<br/><br/>Balwant<br/>sharma_br@rediffmail.com I think you are biased against senior people. It is fair to say a person must get a job on merit, but to say that “Along with their experience they bring all their habits which are really hard to change” indicates your own mindset.
Like skills people must be assessed for habits each on his own merit young or old. That is the point I will like to make.

Balwant
sharma_br@rediffmail.com

]]> By: Mike Ramm http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1878 Mike Ramm Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:15:00 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1878 Pawel,<br/><br/>I like the way you think. It's nice having such a conversation.<br/><br/>Mike Pawel,

I like the way you think. It’s nice having such a conversation.

Mike

]]> By: Pawel Brodzinski http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1877 Pawel Brodzinski Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:43:00 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1877 OK, I agree you can find waiters, who haven't found better job and that's only reason why they stuck with the job during all these years, but I guess those are rather rare examples.<br/><br/>Developers are different in that area. It's hard to keep connection with all the fresh blood coming to the team straight from universities. Unless you keep your ability to learn on high level and exploit your experience you'll quickly end up as unemployed developer with no chances to another job. I've seen former developers who ended up as technical writers, because they wasn't able to keep the track. And one more thing - you won't hire a developer who was poor during an interview only because he looks experienced, right? He needs to convince you he's a worthy candidate first, right? <br/><br/>I think you've left the most important thing to the very end. It's all about how they fit in the team. Yes. One of drawbacks of hiring people with long-time experience is lack or limited possibilities to form them to be a part of the team. Along with their experience they bring all their habits which are really hard to change. But hey, you can always try to measure all the pluses an minuses of every candidate. OK, I agree you can find waiters, who haven’t found better job and that’s only reason why they stuck with the job during all these years, but I guess those are rather rare examples.

Developers are different in that area. It’s hard to keep connection with all the fresh blood coming to the team straight from universities. Unless you keep your ability to learn on high level and exploit your experience you’ll quickly end up as unemployed developer with no chances to another job. I’ve seen former developers who ended up as technical writers, because they wasn’t able to keep the track. And one more thing – you won’t hire a developer who was poor during an interview only because he looks experienced, right? He needs to convince you he’s a worthy candidate first, right?

I think you’ve left the most important thing to the very end. It’s all about how they fit in the team. Yes. One of drawbacks of hiring people with long-time experience is lack or limited possibilities to form them to be a part of the team. Along with their experience they bring all their habits which are really hard to change. But hey, you can always try to measure all the pluses an minuses of every candidate.

]]> By: Mike Ramm http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1876 Mike Ramm Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:24:00 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2007/07/role-of-long-time-experience.html#comment-1876 Interesting comparison, Pawel!<br/><br/>But from my experience with waiters I would say that not all experienced ones are good ones. Sometimes older waiters are people who just haven't found a better job all those years and they really hate to do it. They hate the clients who make them work, they hate everything about their job. They just do it because they cannot find another job.<br/><br/>Maybe it's the same with some older developers - they are capricious, they are old-fashioned, they are tired. They cannot work as the others, they cannot party as the others, sometimes they just don't fit the team.<br/><br/>I think I'm an old one for our profession and although I am a project manager I still write code sometimes. I know what is the value of my experience and I value the experience of the others. I just want to focus your attention on some possible drawbacks of hiring older developers - it's not only about them - it's about the team and how they fit into it.<br/><br/>Mike Interesting comparison, Pawel!

But from my experience with waiters I would say that not all experienced ones are good ones. Sometimes older waiters are people who just haven’t found a better job all those years and they really hate to do it. They hate the clients who make them work, they hate everything about their job. They just do it because they cannot find another job.

Maybe it’s the same with some older developers – they are capricious, they are old-fashioned, they are tired. They cannot work as the others, they cannot party as the others, sometimes they just don’t fit the team.

I think I’m an old one for our profession and although I am a project manager I still write code sometimes. I know what is the value of my experience and I value the experience of the others. I just want to focus your attention on some possible drawbacks of hiring older developers – it’s not only about them – it’s about the team and how they fit into it.

Mike

]]>