Comments on: Exceptional Workplaces and Great Engineers http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html Dealing with software projects in real life Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:07:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Pawel Brodzinski http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html#comment-920 Pawel Brodzinski Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:33:51 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great-engineers.html#comment-920 You're right about places like Silicon Valley, where it's not enough to offer great places to attract great engineers. But Silicon Valley is a specific place. How many others, which look the same, do you know? Google made great offices one of their flag ships and many companies try to copy this approach. However one flag ship doesn't make a fleet - it's not great office alone which ends up in a group of great engineers. I see this failure surprisingly often. By the way I heard the story with coffee brands told in a context of four different companies which makes it pretty typical example. And yes, it's always minority but that's a visible sign of how people think about their employer. And their colleagues who have healthy approach to that. You’re right about places like Silicon Valley, where it’s not enough to offer great places to attract great engineers. But Silicon Valley is a specific place. How many others, which look the same, do you know?

Google made great offices one of their flag ships and many companies try to copy this approach. However one flag ship doesn’t make a fleet – it’s not great office alone which ends up in a group of great engineers. I see this failure surprisingly often.

By the way I heard the story with coffee brands told in a context of four different companies which makes it pretty typical example. And yes, it’s always minority but that’s a visible sign of how people think about their employer. And their colleagues who have healthy approach to that.

]]> By: pete http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html#comment-907 pete Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:22:09 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great-engineers.html#comment-907 one more thing - you have to take into consideration that Mountain View is in the middle of the Silicon Valley :) there's Microsoft office in MV, Oracle and Adobe nearby, Facebook around the corner, Yahoo and Sun headquarters within reasonable commute distance etc. all those companies can offer you great salary and interesting projects, so having additional "engineer bite" is not only about being nice to your employees, it's a good business strategy. also: it may be cheaper to pay for the food and get all the free coverage around the interwebs (including this post) than to post job advertisements :) BTW people complaining about number of coffee or chocolate brands available in micro kitchens annoy the hell out of me, but they are still minority. most of the people in the company do enjoy what they are getting, even if it's making us (sea) sick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMT5WCbQic8 ;) one more thing – you have to take into consideration that Mountain View is in the middle of the Silicon Valley :)
there’s Microsoft office in MV, Oracle and Adobe nearby, Facebook around the corner, Yahoo and Sun headquarters within reasonable commute distance etc. all those companies can offer you great salary and interesting projects, so having additional “engineer bite” is not only about being nice to your employees, it’s a good business strategy. also: it may be cheaper to pay for the food and get all the free coverage around the interwebs (including this post) than to post job advertisements :)
BTW people complaining about number of coffee or chocolate brands available in micro kitchens annoy the hell out of me, but they are still minority. most of the people in the company do enjoy what they are getting, even if it’s making us (sea) sick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMT5WCbQic8 ;)

]]> By: Pawel Brodzinski http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html#comment-2477 Pawel Brodzinski Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:03:39 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great-engineers.html#comment-2477 Stephane,<br /><br />Of course great office and nice coffee alone won't draw great engineers. But in Google case that's a part of their story: "<i>not only we have great projects but there's the best office around too.</i>" Thanks to that they have bigger recruitment pool that they would have had if they had worked just like another huge software house.<br /><br />And it's not about "making" great engineers - neither money nor any other external factor can't do that - but about attracting them to join your team. Stephane,

Of course great office and nice coffee alone won't draw great engineers. But in Google case that's a part of their story: "not only we have great projects but there's the best office around too." Thanks to that they have bigger recruitment pool that they would have had if they had worked just like another huge software house.

And it's not about "making" great engineers – neither money nor any other external factor can't do that – but about attracting them to join your team.

]]> By: Stephane http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html#comment-2476 Stephane Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:15:30 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great-engineers.html#comment-2476 I don't think that the important pieces of google brains have been attracted by the nice coffee and all the benefit of being taken care of by google. Working for such a company is prestigious (and working for Microsoft still is!). It's "Wow". <br />Money doesn't make great engineers, or developers. What makes a developer good is passion. Some talent as well, of course, but passion is the word I think. I don't think that the important pieces of google brains have been attracted by the nice coffee and all the benefit of being taken care of by google. Working for such a company is prestigious (and working for Microsoft still is!). It's "Wow".
Money doesn't make great engineers, or developers. What makes a developer good is passion. Some talent as well, of course, but passion is the word I think.

]]> By: Pawel Brodzinski http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html#comment-2475 Pawel Brodzinski Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:37:20 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great-engineers.html#comment-2475 Craig, <br /><br />I think this can differ among people. Some (not many) people work for money in the first place, some just want to avoid stress at work, some look for challenges and ways to develop themselves. In each case these hygiene factors will be treated differently.<br /><br />Actually I'm not sure that I'm fully agree with bad management being the biggest push factor. It would mean that the worst managers should have problems with staffing which isn't true. Or it may be strong push factor but not strong enough to change jobs. Craig,

I think this can differ among people. Some (not many) people work for money in the first place, some just want to avoid stress at work, some look for challenges and ways to develop themselves. In each case these hygiene factors will be treated differently.

Actually I'm not sure that I'm fully agree with bad management being the biggest push factor. It would mean that the worst managers should have problems with staffing which isn't true. Or it may be strong push factor but not strong enough to change jobs.

]]> By: Pawel Brodzinski http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html#comment-2474 Pawel Brodzinski Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:31:16 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great-engineers.html#comment-2474 Glen, <br /><br />Well, a couple of years before I'd argue with you. But as I've said, I don't anymore. It's not even the coffee story which changed my mind but seeing how some people, after some time, can take every single bonus as granted and yet expect more.<br /><br />I think it is related with (lack of) experience though. I see this flawed behavior mostly among people who haven't worked in environments where you should feel lucky if you notebook can deal with Outlook and there's virtually no coffee for weeks since company doesn't have enough money to buy some.<br /><br />Once you got through "less nice" companies you definitely appreciate this special blend of coffee and don't rant when it's gone. Glen,

Well, a couple of years before I'd argue with you. But as I've said, I don't anymore. It's not even the coffee story which changed my mind but seeing how some people, after some time, can take every single bonus as granted and yet expect more.

I think it is related with (lack of) experience though. I see this flawed behavior mostly among people who haven't worked in environments where you should feel lucky if you notebook can deal with Outlook and there's virtually no coffee for weeks since company doesn't have enough money to buy some.

Once you got through "less nice" companies you definitely appreciate this special blend of coffee and don't rant when it's gone.

]]> By: Craig Brown http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html#comment-2472 Craig Brown Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:20:36 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great-engineers.html#comment-2472 Pawel<br /><br />You are talking about hygene factors.<br /><br />Some things pull workers in, some push them away.<br /><br />I hav come to a tentative conclusion that in IT projects the work itself is the greatest potential pull factor. Bad management and bad customers are the greatest push, and the rest is incidental.<br /><br />Everything, of course is subject to its own context. Pawel

You are talking about hygene factors.

Some things pull workers in, some push them away.

I hav come to a tentative conclusion that in IT projects the work itself is the greatest potential pull factor. Bad management and bad customers are the greatest push, and the rest is incidental.

Everything, of course is subject to its own context.

]]> By: 6p00d8341ca4d953ef http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great.html#comment-2473 6p00d8341ca4d953ef Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:41:28 +0000 http://blog.brodzinski.com/2009/12/exceptional-workplaces-and-great-engineers.html#comment-2473 Pawel,<br /><br />My wife (fortunately in this case has a different last name) works in HR for a startup company where nearly everyone has a very large sense of entitlement. The coffee comment you made is EXACTLY the same conversation. "Where did the Starbucks Special Blend go, I want that back in palce of the normal Starbucks."<br /><br />"I don't like to color of my chair, can you get me a green one instead of this black one."<br /><br />I'm so glad I work in defense where people are happy to have a phone that works and a laptop with enough memory to run Outlook. Pawel,

My wife (fortunately in this case has a different last name) works in HR for a startup company where nearly everyone has a very large sense of entitlement. The coffee comment you made is EXACTLY the same conversation. "Where did the Starbucks Special Blend go, I want that back in palce of the normal Starbucks."

"I don't like to color of my chair, can you get me a green one instead of this black one."

I'm so glad I work in defense where people are happy to have a phone that works and a laptop with enough memory to run Outlook.

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